Human needs help adjusting!

[godawgs428]

We have had George for over a year now. He is 1.5 years old. We got a new kitten, Antonio, 3 weeks ago. My husband read up on these integration steps and has been doing them slowly. They have not been helping at all. Other than a slight improvement over the first few days, the cats are still very aggressive during any (about 20 minutes, once a week is all we can get away with...) time they get to spend in the same room. I guess we just need to keep going on the steps?

But that's not my main problem. I am having a problem adjusting to all this stuff that we have to do. It seems a little extreme to me and it doesn't seem to even be doing anything. It's very frustrating. Since the cats are living in separate rooms and one of us has to be in each room to make them feel wanted, I have not slept in the same bed as my husband for 3 weeks! And the majority of my time home is away from him too. I come home from work, go to the gym, make dinner and then into the other room I go to spend time with this new kitten. So from the hours of 7pm-8am, I am cooped up in my bedroom with only the new kitten.  I find this a little ridiculous. I mean, I love these cats and want them to get along but there has to be a less obtrusive, faster way!! If I have to do this for a couple more months (like most websites say), I'm going to go insane.

One very frustrated cat owner

[animalangel1]

Hi godawgs428!  Welcome to our forum. 

Ok... I get the frustration and I totally understand.  Integrating is NOT an easy or quick process.  First of all - I think you are going too fast.  The cats should not be up to visiting together at all yet!  It's way too soon and that's why you are having a problem. 

I don't know which integration steps your husband is reading about - but these are actually the ones that work: 

http://wvcats.com/integrating_kittens_with_cats.htm

They were written by the administrator of this forum (Margaret aka galensgranny) and here's the link to the entire site should you have any other questions:

http://wvcats.com/index.html

Currently you should only be "scent swapping" so they get used to each others smells.  AND to help this along more quickly - you need to give them treats when they DO see each other at any time or when they seem interested in the others scent on a towel or something.  Also, talking softly to them, petting them in front of each other (you can have one and your husband the other) from a distance first.... everything from a distance at first and then very gradually move them slightly closer to each other after several days.  Then after several more days, closer again, several more days, closer again and so on.

It is KEY to help them to associate GOOD THINGS with each other as that will become the basis of their relationship.   That means feeding them a distance apart but where they can see each other.  Eventually you will move the food for each closer and closer so that they gradually become used to eating near each other.   If all they do is get aggressive with each other at every visit - it's highly likely that will NEVER change.  You need to correct this now.

As for sleeping away from your husband, is it because the kitten cries all night long if he's alone?  Perhaps a hot water bottle wrapped in a towel and a ticking clock will sooth him so you can sneak off to bed with your hubby.  I suggest putting the hot water bottle and the clock in a box big enough for the kitten to curl up in with a pillow or blanket for comfort... of course - the hot water bottle isn't necessary but it might help to soothe the little one to feel something "warm" next to him so he can sleep.  The ticking clock will mimic a heartbeat.  Also, put a nightlight in the room too so the kitten can see clearly where he is and not be quite as frightened of the dark or leave a dim light on for him all night long.

Do not keep the kitten in one room and the other cat in another all the time.... swap rooms with them for a while.  That way - you can be in the living room with your husband and the older cat can be in a bedroom (or where ever) while the kitten explores the living room and the areas accessible while you and your husband watch TV or something.  This can be an hour or more if you want it to be.  Then put the kitten in the room "for the night" and let the older cat out to roam.  You can switch nights too.... The kitten needs to be able to explore the house so he knows where the hiding spots are in case at some point, George comes after him.  He needs to know a safe place to run to.  He needs to be out of his room sometimes.

Please be patient with Antonio and George.  Antonio is scared as anyone would be having been plucked from all that is familiar to him and put into a place where he knows no one or anything - and he's just a baby on top of that.  George is being territorial because a "stranger" is intruding.... he needs help to understand that Antonio is not there to cause fights or steal his food or even to steal his mom and dad away. 

The slower you do this - the better it will be for all of you, human AND animal.  If you try to make a step forward and it's not working out just right - go back a step and stay there for another week before trying to move forward again.  You need to let the cats determine the speed at which they will adjust - and it won't necessarily be YOUR speed. 

You won't go insane... you just have to figure out how to share the cats time during the hours you are at home.  (As in George being out with you while you make dinner and eat, then George in the bedroom while Antonio is out exploring while you cuddle on the couch watching TV with your hubby.)  Or vice versa... you can figure it out - you know your schedule better than I do!     Good luck, I hope this helps..... please do keep us posted and don't be afraid to ask any questions that might come up.  We're here to help ALL of you!!!!

[galensgranny]

Welcome godawgs!

How old is the kitten?

Please be sure to read my article on integrating kittens with cat at http://wvcats.com/integrating_kittens_with_cats.htm. I have integrated a great many cats over the years and the steps do work.  I wrote my articles based on personal experience and knowledge of cats and basic animal conditioning.  Slow and in small increments over time is necessary.

Also read about our integration of a kitten, Seamus, with our several adult cats at http://wvcats.com/seamus.htm.

What exactly do you mean by "the cats are still very aggressive during any (about 20 minutes, once a week is all we can get away with...) time they get to spend in the same room."  Is the adult cat going after the kitten, or is the kitten perhaps trying to play with adult and the adult is not liking it?  Kittens have a need to play wrestle, so that is why it really is best to have two kittens.  But, if you have lots of small stuffed animals around, the kitten can learn to play wrestle with them.

I don't understand why you feel you need to spend an hour isolated with the kitten in one room each evening, and then sleep apart from your husband every night for 3 weeks, hardly spending time with your husband.  Why can't your husband come into that room with you for that hour visiting with the kitten?  Then you and your husband can talk while also being company for the kitten.  Why can't your husband sleep some nights with you in the kitten's room? You can also have the kitten sleep alone in the room some nights while you sleep in the other bedroom with your husband.  When the kitten has slept alone in his room, be sure to go visit him for a short while when you wake up.  It can be just 10 minutes since you then need to get ready for work and leave for work.  You could bring your clothes and makeup into the kitten's room and get dressed and made up for work in there.  That is still being company for the kitten.

Also, you don't need to spend one full hour all at once in the room with the kitten in the evening.  After you get home from the gym, before starting to make dinner, you can spend 15 minutes or 1/2 hour in there, then go make dinner. Then go back to the kitten's room a while later on for another 1/2 hour or so (while your husband cleans up the kitchen and does the dishes).  Your husband can then join you in the kitten's room for while.  Do you go to the gym every day after work?  Consider skipping some days going to the gym, and do stretches, arm curls with small weights and pushups, or whatever exercises you like, in the kitten's room. When I have a cat living apart in one room, I spend some of the time in the room with the cat doing stretches.

As Michelle said, the kitten can, and should, be out in the rest of the house with you for a short while each day, while you have the adult cat in the kitten's room, for an hour or longer.  If the kitten is less than 4 months old, you must take great care to keep a very careful eye on him, because kittens can squeeze into places you did not think they would fit, and they could get hurt.

Please read though other threads in this Integrating Cats section of this forum to read about how things went with other people and what they did.

Let us know how things are going.

[godawgs428]

The kitten is 12 weeks.

By aggressive, I mean a lot of biting. It's both cats that do the biting. They will chase each other and end up wrestling and one of them will bite the other. The kitten likes to slide underneath the cat and then bite him from underneath. The older cat tries to bite him at the neck. They seemed to both be engaged in the play wrestling but I think it's the biting that we see as too aggressive. He has been following them around with a water bottle and spraying them when they start biting to discourage this behavior.

We are isolated because my husband feels that each cat needs to have someone with them at all times. He doesn't want to leave the adult cat alone while we sleep in the same room as the kitten and vice versa. The kitten has been kept in the same room this whole time (with room swapping but only about an hour) because he read somewhere that he needed the same room to be his safe room. So if we were to sleep in the bedroom each night, it would always be with the kitten. I have a hard time explaining to him that each cat doesn't need supervision 24/7. He thinks they're lonely and gets mad when I leave the kitten alone in his room for more than 30 minutes.

[animalangel1]

Oh geez..... cats usually sleep alot and won't even know if you are in the room with them or not.... there really is no need to watch over them 24 hours per day.  

Please tell your husband that Antonio can come out of his "safe room" several times a day - in fact, it's better for him to get used to the WHOLE HOUSE so that when both cats are out - Antonio will know where to run for safety.  It is not necessary to keep the poor little guy stuck in that room all the time... The idea of a "safe room" is that while the kitten/cat is OUT of the safe room - if something happens that scares him - he knows he can run to that room to feel "safe".  It's not meant to be something like a prison.  

Did George sleep with you guys every night before Antonio came home with you?  If not - there's no reason that the both of you can't sleep every night with the kitten.  George probably has his own "spots" to sleep in all over the house.  I have 6 cats and they all sleep in different places every night.... some on the bed - others in other rooms.  Nobody gets lonely because they are SLEEPING.

ALSO - what might "help" to make Antonio not feel so separate from the rest of the house - put a baby gate up in the doorway of his safe room so that he can see out.  He can watch you, your husband and George, he'll have better air circulation and the two cats will get used to seeing each other yet not be able to hurt each other or anything at the same time.  If you are going to work - use TWO baby gates - one above the other so that neither cat can jump over it, yet they will still be able to play paws through the gate and see each other.  This will also help Antonio not to feel so isolated.

Also - if the two cats are playing and they start wrestling... is anybody "crying" or "yelping" out when the biting starts??? If not, they are likely not hurting each other and it actually is play.  Still, breaking up the biting part is a good idea.  I have a squirt gun rather than a squirt bottle.  It shoots farther and is more direct - not like a "mist" from a bottle.  Works like a charm!

I hate to say this but I really think the biggest problem with the integration and the isolation you feel is due to your husband.... not the cats.

[galensgranny]

godawgs, it is your husband insisting on the isolation of you from him.  It is not necessary and not what any article on cat integrations say. As Michelle and I wrote in our posts, there are ways for the cats to be separate while you and your husband can be together.

It is only during the first few days of a new cat coming to a home that the new cat should stay only in the "safe room".  After the new cat has adjusted to being in a new place, has gotten used to the new humans, and, most importantly, has been observed a few days to notice any possible signs of illness, fleas, and intestinal parasites, then room swapping can and should be done. So the kitten should have time out of the "safe room" now, but not making contact with the adult cat.  It is fine for the adult cat to be shut in one room with no human in it for two, three, or even 5 hours.

Once the kitten, and the adult cat, are asleep they will not know if a person is in the room or not.  All cats have a several hours sleep during the dead of night for at least 5 or 6 hours at a stretch.  Over a day, between the long sleep and several naps during the daytime, cats normally sleep approximately 15 hours a day total.  Kittens and young cats generally get up at sunrise, since in nature, that is when their prey get up.  But most all cats and kittens are sound asleep between around 10 PM and sunrise - if it is dark and quiet.

Whose idea was it to get the kitten?  

Did you read my article at http://wvcats.com/integrating_kittens_with_cats.htm?  Did you show my article to your husband?  If not, please do so.

It actually would be best if there were two kittens. They would give each other the natural kind of company kittens prefer.  But, sometimes one is only able to have one kitten.

[godawgs428]

I have read your article and he has read many articles on integration. Yours in more in depth but has the same concepts. He understands the steps and I don't think he got the isolation thing from an article either. I think in his mind, he just thinks they would be lonely without someone with them. He does the same thing for when we leave them all day to go somewhere. He feels really bad. I don't want to sound like a terrible person because I don't want to neglect my cats  but I also don't feel like it's a terrible thing that they're left home alone for 8 hours sometimes. I just have a hard time explaining that it's okay to leave them in another room or by themselves without sounding like I don't care about them.

I also think he was confused about how long the kitten should completely stay in the "safe room". We had to get rid of fleas on the kitten at first but they're gone and he has been to the vet and received all of his shots. Thank you for clarifying that. I'll let him know.

I did however talk him into getting them to sleep alone sometimes. Tonight we're going to put the kitten in the larger room and the adult cat in the bedroom (switched from normal) with my husband out there so the kitten doesn't feel overwhelmed with his first night sleeping somewhere else. He's been out in the other rooms before for room swapping and supervised play but never for sleeping. And then we're going to switch out the cat who sleeps with us each night since we only have the living room and a bedroom as close-able rooms. I'm hoping this will help since the adult cat used to sleep with us every night so I feel like maybe he's upset that he lost that. But the kitten has never really been attached to sleeping with me, only for the first few nights. I always wake up and have to wait a minute for him to appear from somewhere.

We actually have baby gates that we set up for them to have controlled play. This seemed to work for a while until they started to jump over and climb the gates to get to the other side. Our adult cat was actually able to clear two baby gates on top of each other and the kitten would climb them. So we can only do that while we're here.

Sometimes the kitten will yelp with the biting but not always. I thought that biting was a natural part of play for them but I understand my husband's apprehension to let it continue. Is it a bad thing that they're biting? Does it mean that they don't like each other or is it just part of their play?

I came to this forum because I felt that all the articles we were reading were the same and we weren't getting any feedback based on our personal situation so I thank you all for being so helpful.

[animalangel1]

Wow... it's funny that both cats can get over the baby gates!!!  You've definitely got your hands full with that one!

When the cats are wrestling/playing together - let them do it UNTIL someone "yelps".  That's when it's getting a bit too rough.... in fact, maybe you should hold off on that for a few more weeks until Antonio is a bit bigger and more of a match in size to George.  Once you hear a "yelp" - then separate them.  Eventually, they'll get the idea that they are being too rough or something as long as you are consistent.  The biting is part of play.... they don't mean to hurt each other, but they just get a little too rambunctious.  Play is actually how cats practice/learn to catch prey in the wild, hence the biting of the neck to bring down their prey.  Again - since the kitten is still small - I would try not to let this happen until he is a better match in size with George.  

The cats (both of them) should have toys to play with.  When they are left alone for a period of time - they will either sleep - or play with the toys.  If they are lonely - they will find you or each other once they are integrated.

I have a thought...... go to bed a few minutes early (15 or so) and take BOTH cats with you.  Let your husband cater to one (petting, scratching behind the ears, etc) and you take the other and do the same.  This will get them used to being on the bed together AND associate "good things" from you and your husband with each other so that at some point, both will be able to sleep with you.  However, put one of them out of the room before you turn the lights off to go to sleep unless they are both already trying to sleep or something.  You can make this a nightly ritual so that you guys and the cats will have this "Special time" to bond and they will get used to each other as well.  This might also help your husband to feel better about one of the cats being "alone" at night while you sleep.

Also - as Margaret pointed out - if it bothers your husband that the kitten is "alone" a lot - consider getting another kitten about the same age for him to play with while "alone" in the safe room.  Kittens will accept other kittens pretty quick I think.  It will also be very amusing for you and your husband to watch - as well as for George.